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This hostility is unwarranted--and my thoughts

Posted by Dissident on Sunday, October 18 2020 at 3:00:11PM
In reply to Excrement posted by sans on Sunday, October 18 2020 at 06:08:45AM

You can disagree with LOD without this type of attitude, Sans. I am in basic agreement with you that experiences will differ among individual MAPs, who all have different personality traits and different levels of natural or acquired resilience to the issues mentioned. But I think what he said and what the studies you denounce out of hand says holds true for a significant portion of MAPs, even if certainly not all. I believe you when you say this doesn't hold true for you, and can readily believe this wouldn't hold true for other MAPs as well. But it does hold true for many of us, albeit to varying degrees.

As for your denouncement of the studies, I read Cash's thesis, it was peer-reviewed for publication, and I think it was filled with spot on information. As for "stealing" data, that is called a meta-analysis, compiling and comparing data from a bunch of researchers and comparing them to come up with a cohesive theory based upon what they all may (or may not) have in common. That was what the Rind Report was all about too, despite having a control group of its own. Also, for the record, Brian Cash did talk to MAPs outside of forensic and clinical groups in the course of his thesis, because he did so right here on GC and elsewhere for some months, and was also in contact with B4U-ACT during that time.

As for Walker, she has spoken to numerous actual MAPs who are not part of forensic or clinical samples, gotten to know them personally, and interviewed them, and has done this in part through extensive contact with B4U-ACT. She has done that with me, in fact. Hence, her data on MAPs certainly rings true to me, and I think it's hardly the useless piece of "excrement" you paint it as, even if I can (again) readily believe you if you say the data collected does not hold true for you personally.

Now, speaking for myself as an "out" hebephile based on my personal experiences. I have many adult friends and colleagues whom I obviously cherish and get along with well. I would not agree that you cannot bond with other adults. However, I do agree that it's difficult to reconcile the part of me that is MAP with my non-MAP adult friends.

They are obviously uncomfortable with it when the topic comes up, and sometimes it comes up unexpectedly on their end because both those who know I am a MAP and those who do not yet know routinely make typical anti-pedo comments in front of me, both as offhand remarks and in regards to something they read about or heard about that upset them. They do not seem to do it just to be insensitive to me, but because they are so used to doing it around friends who are either not MAP or who are MAPs but pretend not to be, it just "slips out" around me. In other cases, it seems they either go into denial that I am a MAP, due to their own inability to reconcile this aspect of myself with all the other aspects they do respect and appreciate, or they consider me some type of rare exception among the crowd. Even my bestie accidentally does this sometimes, and has critiqued a certain religious group he dislikes by accusing them of "harboring pedophiles"--to me!

This is very difficult to deal with, because I have to keep this side of myself low key around them. Do not get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that they still care for me and respect me despite their profound dislike for this one aspect of me, but the latter realization does make me feel on edge at times. I also always feel nervous and defensive if they should happen to see me around kids, and I am constantly worried that an adult busybody, misguided do-gooder, or moral crusader who is not a friend but aware of my orientation will accuse me of something. This is not to mention what I worry about them saying if they should become inebriated or upset with me about something that has nothing to do with the MAP issue (yes, this has happened).

It is also difficult being around groups of adults who are not friends, and whom I barely know or do not know at all. There have been instances I was in a supermarket or other public places with many fellow adults when I suddenly realized most of them would likely want to harm me if they realized I was a MAP. And I also had the same realization that the minority of adults in that crowd who may be sympathetic would likely not try to help if that did happen, out of concern for becoming victims of the same crowd.

I deal with the same thing in a different sense on social media, of course. Then, as a youth liberationist, there is the tension among adults in that political crowd over the "MAP issue", which is divided between those who want the movement's orgs to come out in defense of age of consent laws and bow down to the pedo panic, and those who want to avoid doing so out of respect for the right of youths to make their own decisions.

And speaking for myself and many other MAPs I personally know or have seen speak in Lifeline, there is that pervading loneliness when you realize that you will never be able to have a romantic relationship with a youth in your age of attraction, and you usually have to hide who you are simply to have close routine platonic interactions on a social and emotional level. And the latter is all but impossible if you choose to be "out of the toybox."

Once more, I can fully believe most or all of that do not hold true for you and certain other MAPs. But it does hold true to varying degrees for a significant number of us.

These are just my thoughts on the matter, for whatever they may be worth to you. No hostility intended, but simply a critique of your own hostility to LOD in this discussion, and towards those researchers who have had the courage to go against the herd and get to know us as people.


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