Hi, Connoisseur,

I will attempt to address your concerns with this post.

Quite a few posters have included disclaimers in their posts, stating that they are not advocating the breaking of laws, which I find strange if the poster is American.

Let us never forget that America was founded as the direct result of a revolution.

It's well known there that I'm a staunch political revolutionary who is all for changing the entire socio-economic system, let alone just a few laws here and there. Nevertheless, the Founding Fathers of America provided us with a means of changing both the system and individuals laws in a LEGAL and democratic manner, without resorting to violence, subterfuge, and outright breakage of various laws, since to attempt to change laws in this manner in today's advanced industrial age, as opposed to the agrarian era of pre-industrial America, could be tantamount to suicide in many cases. Further, if we want a more free society, I believe that we need to utilize methods that are consonant with that goal, as I do not favor the "ends justify the means" motif.

Also, advocating the mere breakage of the AOC laws (which we are specifically dealing with here), for both MAA's and AAM's, as opposed to lawful and democratic agitation and support of the youth liberation movement in regards to changing them, would cause this forum, and possibly all others like it, to be subject to being taken down by LEA's and a far stronger target by various CA organizations. BC, GC, and similar forums have survived online since the inception of the Internet as we know it today in 1995 almost exclusively due to our strict adherence to all laws in all relevant jurisdictions.

America did not come into being until a group of courageous Brits, who were definitely a minority, broke the laws of their King and Parliament.

Remember, we were not Americans when the revolution began.

So, what is our heritage?

To be lap dogs for the establishment?

No.

The only way we pro-choicers would be lap dogs of the establishment, IMO, is if we argued that there is a "good reason" for those laws outside of the context of preserving the status quo (particularly parental power and general youth oppression), which we generally DO NOT agree, and thus attempt to dissuade any MAA's from becoming YList's and attempting to change the laws via political agitation, and instead advocate that each of us enter those repulsive "sexual recovery" programs, as you will see many MAA's and other posters arguing for on forums such as OH. However, we would be exposing this forum, all other forums like it, and our posters to extreme danger if we outright advocate the breaking of laws, and in order for our online community to stay in operation, we have no choice but to observe all relevant laws, even though we do not agree with them and we lawfully agitate against them and routinely critique them.

"When the government no longer serves the needs of the people, they can exercise their constitutional right to alter it or their revolutionary right to abolish that government."
Abraham Lincoln

Under what circumstances can the government rightfully enter your bedroom and regulate love between consenting individuals? As I see it, there are no such circumstances.

Regarding mutually consensual sexual liasons, I fully agree with you on this, but the fact of the matter is, the government currently DOES have the power and the legal fiat to do so, which forces us to fight for our freedoms, but we must do so on the same pulpit that passes these laws, and not simply overtly defy them. Doing so would only result in members of our community being thrown in jail, more of the youths we love being forced into "therapy," harsher laws being passed against our community, and even more harsh and frequent media attacks on us, which would further deter public understanding of our minority group.

There was a post here earlier on the question of
"Does the dawn approach for us" or something like that; it seems that the opening wedge has been driven into the wall, and by no less an entity than the Supreme Court of the United States. Despite the best efforts of Porcelain to undermine it, the post was unassailable.

These are the times that try men's souls. The Summer Child Lover and the Sunshine Pedophile will desert us now in our hour of need; that is to be expected.

This is not the time for the faint of heart. The revolution is upon us. Can we be any less courageous than the gays who suffered for their rights? Shall we be cowardly, as the drug advocates who were arrested for their beliefs were not? Shall we hide out, as the other oppressed minorities did not?

I do agree with you that our resistance to the current conceirge of attacks and repression on our community and that of the youth community has been much too passive, and we need to eventually take our movement offline. But unlike the gay community, we have a far larger task ahead of us, because we need to liberate the youths that we love in all ways before we can liberate ourselves, because as long as youths remain the de facto property of their parents and lack virtually all of their civil rights, our struggle will be far more difficult; as long as parents and the government have so much power over the lives of youths under the age of 18, our attempts to resist oppression centered upon us would be a constant uphill battle. I fully agree with mvanhouten's statements on both the Freedom board and CG that oppression against us is mostly a by-product of repression against youths. We need to establish rights rather than simply breaking laws. Yes, some progress has been made in the past doing the latter, particularly in regards to Martin Luthor King, Jr. and Rosa Parks in regards to the black civil rights movement (two of my all-time heroes), but for us, the stakes may be considerably higher, because we do not yet have a large, cohesive and visible movement for ourselves, and we have not yet pooled our efforts with the youth liberation movement, the latter of whom has still not gained much widespread mainstream acceptance by the Left, and who would be reluctant to work with us at this time for obvious reasons. But fear not, Conniosseur, because I am predicting a strong liberal backlash against the Right in America thanks to the mess that the Bush administration is making of things here within the next two to three years, but evidently he has to make MORE of a mess before it really picks up steam. Sadly, the Left, unlike the Right, have proven to be inveterate cowards in regards to standing up for their beliefs under pressure, and as such, we need to wait for the Right to falter completely before a widespread Left countermovement appears on the scene.

This battle is not being fought for us; it is being fought for the kids and their right to decide. Approach it from that angle, instead of the selfish "Give me the right to screw whomever I want" approach and you have righteousness on your side; you have the moral high ground and you can, and should, take the offensive.

I fully agree with you here, pal. We need to stay in tune with the principles of youth liberation, rather than seeing our fight for freedom as something seperate and distinct, because our lack of rights to love as nature has chosen for us is inextricably linked to the near-total lack of rights currently facing the youth community.

Those of you who continue to mouth the same dreary old platitudes, the same old "I love kids too much to put them through such trauma" are overlooking the fact that this attitude, as stated below in the excellent post which inspired this one, is self-defeating for us and does nothing but strengthen the hand of the oppressor.

Though I do not advocate the breaking of laws, I DO advocate opposing the above moribund platitude that you critique, i.e., simply resigning ourselves to our fate, and once again engaging in the habit of misusing compassion and love to the point where they actually infringe upon, rather than enhance, the principle of righteousness. Further, I do not brutally attack certain members of the community if they should break the law, as others have done, making such self-righteous statements as, "Only the most immoral and selfish asshole would risk putting the youth they love in possible danger of the dreaded 'intervention' by the law and social services by 'crossing the line'; NO MAA who breaks the law in today's political climate can POSSIBLY be a person who cares about youths!" They seem to forget the very important fact that MAA's, like every other person in the world, are human, and the desire for love, affection, and intimacy is a very powerful one among humanity, and I do not consider MAA's who slip and break the law on occasion to be amoral, even though I do advocate resisting the natural desire to engage in illegal sexual activity.

Those of you who are too cowardly or too pessimistic or too brainwashed to live your beliefs, please get out of the way of those who are not. Thank you.

Though I believe that we need to tread in accordance with the law and the principles of democracy, I nevertheless totally agree that we need to tread forward and not be stifled by the brainwashing, anti propaganda, and the type of cowardice epitomized by the majority of the Left over the past two and a half decades. When Bush and Blair's co-empire inevitably falls, we need to make our move, as does all proponents of youth rights, for only in such an ultra-progressive political climate can we surge forward at a relatively rapid pace. We do, however, need to learn the perennial lesson of NOT buckling and backing off under pressure, and becoming "moderates" and "centrists" in order to appease the relentless attacks of the Right; most of the activity of the Left since the ascension of Ronald Reagan into office should serve as textbook examples of what NOT to do if you truly want to win your freedom. Sleeping with the enemy in an attempt to win approval is a proven failure many times over, and we need to be wary of this.

Your friend,

--Dissident