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Posted by Dissident on Sunday, January 08 2023 at 4:45:27PM
In reply to response posted by Butterfly Kisses on Sunday, January 08 2023 at 4:14:06PM

"I do mean the communism you mean."

If you think I mean the type of system the Soviet Union had, and China had under Maoism, or whatever version of it the Woke claim to have, then you do not mean what I mean. An economic democracy, as explained by Marx and Engels, is a classless, stateless, moneyless society where everyone is fully compensated for their work regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, etc., and there is no oppressive state apparatus to control people's opinions or thoughts. Nothing like that resembles anything the Soviet system had, and certainly nothing resembling the Woke mentality, which focuses on entitlements/reparations given to various identity groups based on past injustices that inevitably result from a class-divided system of any sort.

"But, hey giving 5% chance to the other side of I think it could work is a lot more than, well in all my years of debating I've ever seen anyone give. It's always your a nazi, white supremist, fascist, woman hater for thinking capitalism is good. Forget even giving a chance the other side could work."

Except I do not think you're a nazi, white supremacist, fascist, woman-hater, etc, for thinking capitalism is good. I would simply consider you mistaken, but not in any way a bad person or against any particular type of identity group. Classic Marxists focus on class, not identity. You're still a very good person in my book, and I would never end a friendship with you over this disagreement. Does that sound like a Soviet-style authoritarian or Woke hate-monger to you, my friend? :)

As for the Wokes allegedly hating capitalism, they are a product of competition under this system, with different identity groups competing against others, in their case on the basis of which is the most "marginalized" (sort of as a continuing status designation, rather than an ongoing reality). They eschew discussions of class in favor of dividing the labor class into different competing identity groups, which works to the advantage of those few with actual privilege in the capitalist system (or any class-divided system), not to its detriment. The big corporations love the Woke because of the way they divide labor against itself and thus diverting their scrutiny away from the system itself. This is why many corporations have begun hiring "diversity specialists" and filling their HR departments with careerist Wokes, and why Hollywood is filled with such people.

They may claim to hate capitalism, but that is just a ruse. The system loves them, and they use its state apparatus and corporate structure of control to fulfill their agenda. An actual economic democracy with no separate economic classes and based on cooperation rather than competition would lack both the motivation for such people and the tools needed to advance a goal where one group attempts to have power over another. The Woke do not want to overthrow capitalism, they simply want to run it with people like them in the top spots.

"I've said it before, but my hope is in the future many countries will have a wide variety of many politics and cultures. Instead of this mono culture, mono politics, mono thought processes we are going into. It would provide a good pressure valve for people who are close to violently opposed to the system they are in as well."

Such a culture of actual diversity of thought is only possible under a system where a few do not control the media, the tech systems, and the government itself. To be clear, I only support equality of material compensation--not a uniformity of thought. People should be free to lead whatever they of life and pursue whatever path they choose without being forced to fulfill any specific set of expectations or standards.

I think regarding you and me, our only differences are what system will best achieve that.

"They think diversity of skin color is all that matters as long as everyone thinks the same."

Agreed. You will note that I do not think you should be forced to think the same way I do. I try to convince you of my view using words and persuasion, but I do not think your view should be censored or that you should be penalized in any way for expressing it, nor do I try shaming you as a bad person for thinking differently. The forums for discussion and debate should be equally open to everyone so we can exchange words and ideas and provide evidence etc with all getting an equal hearing.

I hope this distinguishes me from the people you truly loathe...who are almost certainly the same people I tend to loathe myself :)


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