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I don't despise child pageants per se

Posted by Dissident on Saturday, March 26 2022 at 02:06:41AM
In reply to I hate these... posted by TheMaddestHatter on Thursday, March 17 2022 at 04:59:07AM

I really despise Child Pageants, especially for how abusive they are. People will literally force them to dress up and wear makeup until they're literally sick of it, like they're nothing but fucking dolls. It's sickening.

I hate it when kids are forced to do anything, including child pageants. I do not hate it, however, if the individual kids in question enjoy it, are not subjected to abusive conditions, or if they do not mind "looking like dolls." I don't like that look either, to be honest, and prefer natural pageants to the "glitz" versions, but again, that is not my choice to make for them. Do I believe that the entire industry is abusive and that all or even most kids hate it and have to literally be forced or compelled to do it? No, much as I do not believe the same regarding the porn industry or sex work industry for adult women. And I think those who dislike any industry personally should keep that in mind, and consider that the major reason "normies" hate us is because they find our feelings disgusting.

A movie about pre-teen girls struggling in a hyper-sexual society that borderline demands sex appeal to have any form of validation is calling out this behavior and the big-wigs that are whining about it are offended by it because they're being exposed.

I think we actually live in a sex-negative society, because despite all the sex imagery we see, girls and women are still slut-shamed. As for the validation thing, I think that's wrong but I also do not like the opposite extreme: penalizing girls and women who are proud of their bodies, and penalizing boys and men for admiring them. Women and girls have beautiful bodies, and that should simply be expected. Admiring that physical aspect of them does not negate respecting them as people and for the many other things about them we admire, such as their great creativity, ability to sculpt language in many impressive ways, and of being very good with tutorials on just about any topic one can imagine. The idea of sex-negativity, and that sexual admiration is a bad thing, is precisely at the crux of the moral panic against us.

And if people dare doubt that Child Pageants are abusive, let me get some quotes from girls on "Toddlers and Tiaras."

I dare to disagree, in part because I never back down from speaking my mind, and in part because I too have seen the show and have heard statements from the girls that are contrary to the examples you showed, I saw some of them having a lot of fun, and I have heard feedback from women who actually participated in pageants as tykes. I do not focus on just one side of the issue, the one that happens to correlate with my personal feelings on the industry or the idea of it, and as a result, I find myself in the position to say the following: girls who do not want to do it should not be expected to do it. Conditions should be as fun and favorable for them as possible, and the girls themselves should be in charge of much of the proceedings.

As for offering them favors like tacos etc. to get them to perform: I think that is wrong, but when they become adults they may be offered money/material recompense to do things they hate of a non-sexual or beauty-oriented nature, such as clean offices, babysit, or clerical office work etc, and I don't see many people complain about doing any type of job they hate unless it happens to involve sex and physical beauty. Well, guess what? I am very much against people being compelled to do anything they hate doing or to do it under abusive conditions, which is why I support the right of people of all ages to have meaningful work, which means work that they are personally suited for and want to do and under perfectly fair and humane conditions. I know that is getting into broader political territory, but I think it's relevant considering our double standards and selective vision regarding exploitative work, and only considering it so if it happens to involve some aspect of sex or beauty.

Also, MadHatter, please keep this in mind about the show. It's a reality show. It's designed to be entertaining and sensationalistic, not to give us a truly realistic look into how pageants work, or the typical feelings of kids. Think about how many mundane and uncontroversial scenarios and potential guests were filmed but did not make it past the cutting room floor because their performances were deemed by the producers to be not as funny, compelling, dramatic, or sensational as the ones that did make the cut. This was likely even more the case with the parents of the kids; the participants ultimately chosen were those who created the most drama. I'm sure there is rarely a dull moment at pageants, both behind the scenes and on stage, but many of them are not likely what you saw on screen there.

"Cuties" is literally calling out this behavior and, in a way, shaming it.

I think we should be shaming the shaming, rather than shaming girls and women for expressing their sexuality in ways that may be fun and even potentially empowering for them, such as twerk dancing.

Girls should not have to constantly be sexual to feel validated in any sense, and I can tell you the damage it does,

I concur. But I also think they should not be compelled to be non-sexual in order to be validated as moral or worthy of respect. I understand the damage it can do, but going to the opposite extreme with slut-shaming and other forms of penalization is also very damaging. This is why it should be left up to the individual girls and women to decide what is right or wrong for them. You are free to dislike any industry you personally had a bad experience with, or being compelled to be involved with when you actually didn't like it, but that does not IMO justify calling for a blanket ban of an entire industry.

as I am an FtM and was very much raised by the idea that I need to be sexual to be worth anything to my partners, something that I still struggle with to this very day.

Let me ask you an honest question. Do you hate and resent men for having had bad experiences with the ones you happened to be attracted to? I've had many bad experiences with women who expected me to be this or that which I couldn't be in order to be respected, and I know how much that can put hate in someone's mind and heart. But I got over it and now realize it's wrong to hate. I'm not trying to minimize or dismiss the pain you feel, but I do not think it's ever right or justified for pain to erupt into hate. That only makes you as bad as the people who hurt you. I learned this lesson the hard way, which is why I do not give anyone a free pass for it.

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