For example I hate communism. Even if Ukraine declared that they wanted to be communist I still would be supporting their right for that decision for themselves. People should have the right to make decisions I do not like.

Ahh, now it gets interesting. Would you say the same for Crimea? In the West they call it "annexed". They never tell you there was a vote by the people of Crimea before it joined Russia. Was this vote meddled with to make a "No" into a "Yes"? I mean, they did vote to choose their own destiny, didn't they?

That airliner was shot down by a Russian missile, shot from Russian held territory in Dunbass

All true. Ukraine forces possessed the Russian-made missile type which shot down the airliner.

..delivered from Russia the day before the airline was shot down.

The missile was an old version not used anymore by Russia, if I remember correctly. I grant that I could be wrong on that, but I am curious about your source that the missile was delivered the day before into Ukraine. I never heard that.

If you believe that this was an American missile shot from Ukraine

Words placed in my mouth again. Never said it.

Who is increasingly targ eting civilians.

I don't know, since I don't have a neutral source on the ground there to tell me. I'm glad you seem to believe you have one. In any case, it is not unheard of to hide among civilians for propaganda purposes against a stronger opponent. The Palestinians do it all the time. Do not take that to mean I take sides on that other conflict. I am merely stating a fact. It's what they do.

I believe they are a democratically elected government based on what I have seen of their elections.

Would that include the Yanukovych election? We have Victoria Nuland speaking on the phone discussing who takes over after his ouster. You think John McCain gave a crap about the Ukrainian people? Why was he over there handing out loaves of bread?

I'll explain it. It's about money. It's always about money. Yanukovych had backed out of trade integration talks with the West in 2013 and was turning to Russia. He was out by 2014 and in came the IMF with $27 billion to help "persuade" Ukraine to "open up their markets" to western capital (ie, global corporate influence and control). In the 21st century, it might be time for people to start realizing that taking over countries and subjugating them rarely comes from the barrel of a gun anymore. In fact, it is usually the last choice after all other methods.

Nah Russian territory was not getting taken by Ukraine.

Never said it.

Russian citizens were not being killed in Russia by Ukraine.

Never said it. (You seem to do a lot of this. Dissy surely would have used the term "straw man" by now.)

Ukraine has (and already had (don't start reading a book 2/3rds of the way thru the story, it might slant your understanding of the conclusion)) a democratically elected government.

If the election was rigged those pro Russian candidates would not have been allowed to win.

So you're saying Crimea rightly chose its fate to go with Russia. Thank you.

I think now Americans realize the folley of invading...

You have a lot more confidence in the intellect and attention span of average Americans than I do, but I hope you are right. I think they will be getting their world view from TikTok influencers within a few years. They will be demanding their own demise, which is the goal of corporate media today quite frankly.

Mind you, we are still in the middle of this conflict as we make this exchange. People are already making conclusions about the outcome like they know.

They don't.

(Posted: 3/21/22 GMT)