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Posted by Butterfly Kisses on Sunday, March 20 2022 at 11:06:17PM
In reply to Disagree. (more than one word, see inside) posted by Eeyore on Sunday, March 20 2022 at 10:09:05PM

The numbers are responding to the bolded sections as quoting so much would make this far too long.

1- Doesn't matter if they are corrupt, just getting weapons for money, etc. None of that matters. Do the Ukrainian people have a right to self determination? I believe they do. Whether people I don't like profit from that, or if Ukraine does things I don't like doesn't matter. Even if totally true which I doubt. It's a corrupt country. So what. They still should be able to have a country which they can decide for themselves what to do.

For example I hate communism. Even if Ukraine declared that they wanted to be communist I still would be supporting their right for that decision for themselves. People should have the right to make decisions I do not like.

2- They targeted separatists in Dunbass. I personally believe that areas with more than 50% Russian inside Dunbass (note the province as a whole is more Ukranian than Russian) should be allowed to vote to go to Ukraine or Russia, or be independent. But, that's not here nor there with regards to this conflict. Putin is not invading just Donbass. He is invading all of Ukraine. If anything he doesn't seem to really be that concerned about Donbass. Nor is that even the reason he has given to invade.

That airliner was shot down by a Russian missile, shot from Russian held territory in Dunbass, delivered from Russia the day before the airline was shot down. If you believe that this was an American missile shot from Ukraine, not sure what to tell you. Not even the usual anti Nato, anti American sources outside of Russia itself tried to dispute that one.

3- It still is irrelavant. Whether Ukraine is a corrupt country or not or any of this really is irrelevant to the central question. Does Ukraine have a right to defend itself against invasion. I believe yes. They are getting curb stomped by a bully. Who is increasingly targeting civilians.

4- Sometimes it is just a money pit. It probably did just make the war go longer. Since I believe Ukraine has a right to defend itself. I believe they are a democratically elected government based on what I have seen of their elections. I agree with Joe Biden and the U.S. sending weapons to them. Russia is 100% in the wrong on this. Saying you think Ukraine is wrong in a few other areas doesn't make Russia not evil in the war.

5- Nah Russian territory was not getting taken by Ukraine. Russian citizens were not being killed in Russia by Ukraine. Russia did not even invade Dunbass and Luhansk which would have at least been a lot more justifiable on their side. They are the bully. They are the ones killing Ukrainian civilians.

6- Ukraine has a democratically elected government. Pro Russia candidates not only were allowed to run, many did win especially in areas in Eastern Ukraine. If the election was rigged those pro Russian candidates would not have been allowed to win. Also of note is that the pro European, pro NATO wing in Ukraine did not even get a majority. If this was a coup like you imply that would not be the case.

If Mexico elected an anti U.S. president and started getting arms from the Taliban no I still would not invade. I think now Americans realize the folley of invading Iraq and Afghanistan and if given the choice to redo they wouldn't have invaded. And that's even with Afghanistan attacking us directly something Ukraine has not done to Russia. They would have to directly attack the U.S. Ukraine did not attack Russia. The threat of possible attack is not a justifiable position to invade. Nor would Ukraine ever be stupid enough to attack Russia being 1/5th the population and economy.

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