you bring up the subjects of slavery and women's rights . . .

Without doubt, slavery and the subjugation of women are wrong, however -

There were plenty of anti-slavery activists and women's rights activists who went way overboard and made untrue claims - sometimes to the detriment of those they claimed to serve.

"Uncle Tom's Cabin", for example, was hardly representative of the reality of most slavery - but it was certainly sold as such.

More recently, we have people claiming that if a slave ever had sex with their owner, it was always rape, even if the slave desired it and initiated it. They claim it's about a power imbalance - in fact, the same argument the kranks use to claim that adult-child sex is always rape.

Similarly, many of our problems stem from women's rights activists who went way overboard, making claims about marriage being rape, or even all sex being rape.

As it happens, I'm pro-choice, and I believe children are deserving of basic human rights and respect as much as adults. However, I see some opinions being bandied around which suggest that children are as capable as adults in all things, and never require guidance - opinions which I consider laughable. There is a big difference between a three year old and a six year old and a nine year old and a twelve year old and a fifteen year old. Certainly, abilities are not dependent on age alone, but age is generally a pretty good indicator. What is more important is that we would be remiss in our responsibility to children if we let them do whatever they like without guidance.

I have other reasons for being pro-choice than believing that children are mini-adults. First and foremost is that I think love and tenderness are good things, and should not be kept away from children. Secondly, I think the current schedule of when children are expected to take responsibility is rather skewed. Some responsibilities are given too early, others are given too late. Thirdly, I don't believe that we should be fighting biology in a misguided and counterproductive attempt to save children from themselves.

I will also point out that most of the pro-choicers here occupy the middle ground - and, it seems, especially those who have had extensive real world experience with actual children.

You can bet that, just as some abolitionists and suffragettes overstated their case, some youth rights activists are overreaching today - with potentially catastrophic effects for future generations.

So - the slaveowners and wifebeaters probably were right about some things - though obviously not about everything. I know there's little sense in talking to kranks, but it may pay to have a little respect for the opinions of non-choicers on this board. You might just learn something.