Isn't it nice to think you've won something? Did it feel good? Good, because that moment is gone. blah blah blah...

You know quite well that I didn't say that parents and teachers never live for the good of the children
you said they do the harm routinely. that implies a winning strategy would assume a malign influence.

since you seem to see yourself as the typical pedophile, what do you fantasize about when you dedicate house selflessly fantasizing about little girls? Most of the people I know tend to fantasize about holding hands, a smile, just being with someone and being loved. You seem to have an opinion that the typical fantasy (and hours of it, too!) is more than that, so I would be most interested in knowing what goes on in that head of yours.
i don't know what the 'typical pedophile' would be. i look for commonalities in background, but modes & means of expressing sexual attraction are extremely diverse & fluid.
as for fantasy. does it really matter? most of the time, i guess i fantasize much as most of the people you know. sometimes i have very explicit erotic fantasies, & i think thats probably equally common. i certainly don't feel unique in that.

i admit my 'fantasy' comment was provocative, but i get irritated by the pervy juvenilia that passes for discussion here sometimes, especially when its combined w/ a holier than thou contempt for the efforts of parents & teachers who devote hours of real work to their charges. why do maa's have to be in open conflict w/ other people who spend time w/ children? it seems like jealousy.

that very much adult ideal of power.
duh? the life of a two year old doesn't involve power struggles? yeah, right.

If it is your view that being in a relationship (of any kind) is to try and gain power over the other person, then I am very glad that you are non-contact.
at one level, power is ubiquitous, at another, try and gain power implies a conscious striving for a specific goal, but often that goal is likely to be obscure or unknown. between these extremes, i am talking about something that exists in the interstices. also, in a relationship between an adult & a child, the one who seeks influence is not necessarily the older or the more 'powerful'. there are many dimensions to power relations.

So, since adults apparently created gravity [...] Care to explain how the existence of gravity is an adult construct? Or how about explain how the engineering design of a bridge is necessarily related in any way to the power struggle that the majority of adults attribute to relationships? i'm sorry, you missed the irony. i was suggesting that, just as power is an equation that relates individuals w/out regard to their age, so is gravity. the bridge was just a case of flgging the metaphor to death.

You speak of rejecting Foucauldian (You do mean Foucauldian, right?) "power analysis", and yet you tried to use it directly against me. tsk tsk, hypocracy is a bad habit, kea. Incidentally, so is trying to use Foucault to back your self serving arguments.
Foucauldian if you prefer. i see the merit in Foucault's formulation, i just don't swallow it sinker & all. nor do i twist it into a meaningless parody of itself, as feminazi fundamentalist academics are wont to. on the shoulders of giants & all that.

Actually, what scares me is that you somehow have missed that the focus on most of my views is the protection of children. I believe very much that we are more protective of children than those outside of our realm, but some of us do it for themselves rather than for the children.
i don't think i have missed that focus Demosthenes. :-) i'm sorry you have such a low opinion of me. i feel you have missed the focus of my views as well.

you seem to have a lack of respect for linguistic convention.
a lack of respect generally. i'm anti capitalist.

You come across as agreeing with the other side that children in and of themselves are incapable of exploring their own sexuality without being harmed by it.
well, that isn't what i believe & i've never said it. all i have ever said, & all i am still saying, is that there are reasonable grounds for caution & considerable care is indicated. the reason i say this is that some people do take a far more cavalier attitude. i think that it is wrong to deny categorically that the objections of 'antis' can ever have any substance. not all of them are motivated by moralizing & patronizing bigotry. some of them are just plain care & concern. what i wld like to find is common ground found between parents, teachers & maa's, where together the welfare of children is held to be the most important good.

what upsets me is that this view is so controversial.

I realize that you may say "only if it's with an adult", and that even if I tried to ask "what about it being an adult in and of itself would dictate that harm be the result?" you would be of the mind that by some quirk of reality the age of a partner determines the qualification of harm.
no, thats not remotely what i think.

Do you think that if the general outlook changed and adult-child relationships became understood and accepted, if the stigma and guilt machines were dismantled, if things changed so that society wouldn't seek to cause harm if none exists, that the child would still be harmed if they were in an equal and mutual relationship with an adult?
not necessarily, no. i think the chances of harm would be substantially less if the harms children in sexual relationships were exposed to did not include social opprobrium, shame, guilt, embarrassment & so on. i do think there wld be risks involved, but there are risks involved in everything. in most cases i think the risks wld be outweighed by benefits.

If I have misunderstood, please help me understand so that we stop going in circles like this.
i think you have misunderstood. you are reading my critiques as expression of plain opposition to yr views, but in fact i am just arguing against the dogmatic assumption that you are right & everyone else is wrong. i think this is a dangerous position to take in any argument as complex as this one.

If, however, you feel that children are incapable of entering into that type of relationship with an adult without receiving harm, or that we (even though we are not like others) are incapable of entering into that type of relationship with a child without causing harm, then we still have a problem and I don't know how it can ever be resolved.
i don't feel either of those things, & i hope we can reach some agreement.

I would like to think that you truly care about children for the children, and that you view children as equals in humanity, but I simply an unable to see that from anything that you have said as long as I have been on GC.
you have been misunderstanding me fairly consistently... lol.