Re: You are wrong

"I think you are very one eyed. You use the word "we" implying that you are a supporting part of the American agressors. In that case, you have chosen to wage war against the Middle East so just expect all that comes back on you."

I'm an American, so I meant "we" as in the military forces of my country--you shouldn't look too deeply into that.

It seems to me that you have a lot of emotional investment to your world-view--that said, it is likely that this will negatively interfere with the debate at hand if this is true.

"Nuclear attack is a last resort."

MAD prevents nuclear war in the first place because no country is going to risk being blown to smithereens--are you not familiar with the concept?

"You obviously are oblivious to the fact that wars can get out of hand--such is human nature. Don't be so sure that mutually agreed nuclear war couldn't happen. People so commonly start with verbal aggression, which often leads to shoving, which oftn leads to punching, which often leads to someone being killed by a gun. Things can ESCALATE. The trouble here is that you are applying what should logically be towards what illogical reality can occur. People are not often logical, especially the more angrier they become! Often hate, bigotry, anger and other emotional lunacy prevails over pure reason."

That's the thing--MAD will most likely prevent China from occupying our country. We (US forces) would likely bomb their cities, while demanding that they withdraw, and will lay down the terms that if they don't do so within a given ultimatum, that they will be nuked.

No non-suicidal country would risk that.

"Yes but they CAN. They can vote in governments which are able to violate, intrude and meddle into citizens' private affairs."

Your point being..? :-/

"So U.S and U.K laws aren't oppressive? Therefore they should replace the laws of the Middle East??"

Not nearly, no. We (Americans) have many more rights than Mid-Easterners do. We don't force our women to wear certain clothes, for one.

"And MOB RULE of the demotic baaaaaaaing sheeple isn't retarded?"

It is pretty retarded, but not nearly as retarded as conservative theocracies.

"You seem to be aiming for perfection, so why not also advocate the abandoning of the archaic system of democracy (which I might also remind you, even it's inventors, the Greeks, had to end up quickly throwing in the political trash bin as a complete failure!--unworkable in a primitive and low populated society, let alone a modern technological society of burgeoning population)."

I wouldn't mind replacing our government with a better, more intelligent one--what makes you think that I would? :-/

"Your atheist bias couldn't be more clearer. But I simply don't wish to open a huge debate here on religion. This forum is not intended for that. But I would add that atheism has caused some of the worst violence, bloodshed and atrocities in all history. You are completely naive if you think that if you outlaw religion you will automatically eliminate human aggression. If you do then you are in la la land."

I am not atheist, atheists are no fundamentally different than religious people IMO--but you are right, this isn't a forum for philosophical/spiritual debate, so that is irrelevant.

I don't want to "outlaw" religion, I would just prefer people not believe in them because they cause more harm than good. Again, I consider atheism to be a kind of religion.

I think it's strange how you seem to have contempt for certain groups/organizations/movements--it's becoming a little bit clearer that you are emotionally invested in your world view, which you probably at least partially adopted from whatever group you have allegiance to.

"You can interpret Islam in the ways you like,..Islam only reserves violence to be exacted against those who would initiate aggression against it."

There is no room for interpretation regarding many of the violent anti-Jihadist themed passages in the Koran--it is explicit, and straight forward.

Let me take the time here to mention that I do not necessarily have a problem with individuals who claim to be Muslims, but that my problem lies with Islam itself, for the Koran preaches death to non-believers and other unethical/inhumane behaviors.

This is the type of stupid shit that many Mid-Easterners no longer want a part of.

"And this is why I am yearning for the day that some other big boy superpower such as China or Russia invades the evil U.K and U.S. --to put an end to their imperialist bullying once and for all. The decadently rotten to the core U.S and U.K have had a long enough innings, it's time for them to go down and get a taste of their own medicine. And let someone else dominate the scene for a change. It's time for something nice and refreshing."

So your problem isn't with the fact that "imperialism" is occuring, but rather, it's with the fact that a country that you are at odds with has the upper hand at this point in history? 8-.

"Most Muslims don't want U.S an U.K occupation...The vast number of Iraqis didn't want the U.S to invade, most didn't even want Saddam Hussein out, certainly not with the self-determined "help" of the USA."

Proof?

"The Zionist media intentionally mislead Western audiences when they focused on a few rogue groups of miscreants and trouble makers screaming "YAY, the USA!!"

Again with these contentions? Do you have any evidence that Zionists control the Western media?

I remember, as a child, hearing about violence in the Mid-East at least once a week, even before 9/11. The reports only fairly recently slowed down, and something tells me that it's not because terrorist activity died down, but rather, it's because it became old and uninteresting news.

"Your MOB RULE sheeple faith couldn't be more steeped in unenlightenment if it wanted to be. It might evolve, but evolves into more and more inanity and darkness."

I don't totally disagree with your first sentence, but would like to see some evidence regarding your second one--is this a debate, or therapy session? lol...

I really don't want to hear what emotions you have regarding this issue because they are irrelevant to the debate.

"Seeing the majority of Americans believe in fascism, that pretty well means that you have no say. You won't get listened to."

I know.

"And that doesn't go on in the U.S state schools every day? LOL"

You seem to have this mentality that I'm completely for my country, and against all others--in reality, though, I do not see the world as black & white, and have many problems with the country I live in. Many.

"Yes but it comes back to what I was saying about before. What if, through the introduction of democracy, that the MOB hypothetically happened to vote in a government which had AOC laws as part of it's policy, and which also outlawed other aspects of traditional life? This is why democracy SUCKS. It doesn't represent citizens' individual interests and needs, but instead relies on fads, whims, fashions lead by MOB RULE. Democracy isn't just about public decision on if, how, when and where a new town hall gets built. No, it potentially violates how people choose to live in their utmost PRIVATE affairs. And that is what makes it so utterly vile."

I very much agree with many of the things you are saying, but the thing is, people are typically SAFER in democracies, and the reason we are establishing a new regime is to rid them of those violent terrorist who murder indiscriminately.

If they, say, choose to adopt a different form of government later on that doesn't allow for terrorism to thrive, and the US intervened, I would have a huge problem.

"You are returning all this back to asserting that the Americans are the ones who are "fighting back", but it is the Muslims who are doing that. That is my own evaluation of it. However you are welcome to continue disagreeing with me all you like. Again I just don't care."

The fact that this violence has been occuring since well before 9/11 indicates to me that WE are intervening, not the other way around.

"Civilization? What civilization? Or are you meaning American culture? True Western civilization is long gone. We now live in a culture of SHIT, (or "Kulture Terror" as the Germans used to refer to it)."

I wish you had a point, and didn't just want to bash Americans. ;)

Your emotions are showing again. :-D

"I don't really preach for its destruction, I merely wish for its destruction."

Most of this debate has been you preaching for its destruction, lol.

"As I said, hopefully some other big boy will take the U.S out before it gets completely out of control (or to use your words, "a much bigger problem")."

I don't hope this, because that may mean danger to me and my family/friends.